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Jeannie Gaffigan on family and finding her way

By Joey Grihalva

I’ll never forget the time I saw comedian Hannibal Buress open for Louis C.K. at Caroline’s in New York City. Or Ron Funches open for Reggie Watts at Helium in Portland. Or South Milwaukee’s own Jackie Kashian open for Maria Bamford at the Just for Laughs Festival in Montreal.

In each instance it was my introduction to the opener and I instantly became a fan. Comedy (and music) careers can be launched from a great opening set for an established headliner.

That is decidedly not the intention when comedian Jim Gaffigan brings out his five adorable children to entertain audiences before he performs. While the Gaffigans aren’t a “show family,” the children have grown up around show business. This is because Jim works closely with his wife Jeannie and the family regularly travels together.

The first time I saw Jim Gaffigan at the Pabst Theater I was surprised to see his kids come out to Irish dance and introduce their dad. But then I remembered that his wife Jeannie is a Milwaukee-native and his annual run of Pabst shows allows them to spend the holidays with her family.  

In fact, Jeannie is the eldest of Dominic and Louise Noth’s nine children. I attended Rufus King High School with two of the Noths’ daughters and recall Jeannie’s headshot outside the theater director’s office. She was an accomplished actress, director, producer, and non-profit leader before meeting her husband, but the careers of husband and wife would reach new heights once they teamed up.

I spoke with Jeannie over the phone from her office in New York City a few days before Thanksgiving.


Jeannie Gaffigan — a devout Catholic — was raised on the East Side of Milwaukee near the UWM campus. Her father was the theatre and film critic for the Milwaukee Journal and continues to write for Urban Milwaukee. Jeannie and her siblings were exposed to the arts early in life.

“It was pretty chaotic in our house. I kind of got put into the role of director-producer pretty early just by default,” recalls Jeannie.

“When we had block parties I would say, ‘Okay, let’s do a number from Grease,’ and rope everybody into doing it. I was a little bit of a bossy big sister,” admits Jeannie.

As a high schooler, Jeannie took to acting but didn’t believe it to be a realistic pursuit after graduation. She was majoring in communications at UW-Madison until a summer job working with young actors pulled her back to the theater. She qualified for a merit scholarship to Marquette University, where she transferred and became a theatre major.

In the 1990s, Jeannie became immersed in the Milwaukee theater scene. When she wasn’t rehearsing and performing she enjoyed seeing live music particularly at Shank Hall and hanging out at Fuel Cafe and Lixx Frozen Custard.

But, while interning with the Milwaukee Repertory Theatre, she realized that if she wanted to catch a break in Milwaukee, she might need to expand her horizons outside the city.

“It felt like there was a niche group of actors that were always getting work and they weren’t from the rank-and-file interns, they were coming in from New York and Chicago. It  became pretty apparent to me that I needed to find my way beyond Milwaukee,” Jeannie says of her decision to abandon the directing master’s program and move to New York City.


Upon moving to NYC Jeannie discovered that her theatre job provided just enough money to pay the rent. Like many aspiring artists in the big city, she hustled work to survive. Jeannie became involved in the catering industry, booking shifts around her theatre schedule. It wasn’t long before she joined a sketch troupe, took improv classes, and became part of NYC’s grassroots theatre community.

She also supplemented her income with freelance artist-in-residence teaching gigs in public schools where arts funding was being cut. This experience inspired her to start a nonprofit, after-school theatre organization called Shakespeare on the Playground.

Around this time Jeannie met Jim Gaffigan they were living on the same block in Manhattan. A neighborly relationship turned into a working friendship as Jeannie recruited Jim to volunteer with Shakespeare on the Playground. In return, Jeannie became Jim’s acting coach for his first sitcom, CBS’ short-lived Welcome to New York. This led to producing a stand-up comedy CD for Jim.

“He was one of the smartest and funniest people I’d ever met,” Jeannie says. “I liked that we had the same work ethic. Also, he’s from a family of six kids, so there was a language that we understood right away. And he grew up on Lake Michigan, but he was on the Indiana side outside of Chicago.”

Over the years Jeannie and Jim’s relationship evolved. They became a bona fide comedy team. She has helped refine and hone his comedic voice, while producing his tours and specials. As a result, Jim has become one of the most beloved comics in the country, particularly among those doing clean material.


Shortly after they were married, Jeannie became pregnant with their first child.

“It was a whirlwind. We didn’t really have time to plan a family. We just started having kids and moving our life around them,” says Jeannie.  

The couple successfully brought their first baby on the road. But when Jeannie had two kids in diapers and Jim started doing theaters, Jeannie decided to stay home, which put a strain on their relationship. Around baby number three the Gaffigans restructured.

Longer tours are now scheduled around the kids time off. The family travels in a large tour bus, which provides arguably more privacy than the kids had in the two-bedroom apartment they lived in up until last year.

“People have asked me, ‘Aren’t your older ones at the point where they want to stay home with friends and not go out on the road?’ But I haven’t experienced that yet,” says Jeannie.

“Of course, they fight and argue like all kids, but they really enjoy being together as a group. They’ve developed this camaraderie and I think it’s a testament to how great the whole experience has been for my family.”


Since Jim is the youngest of his family, by the time he married, all his siblings had their own families and each did their own Christmas. Jeannie’s family still came home to Milwaukee, so that became their holiday tradition.

“Jim was quickly adopted into the family as the 10th kid. He and my dad really get along,” says Jeannie. “They have very similar minds, they like to debate about stuff. And my mom of course loves Jim.”

“The holidays are a time when people have off and want to go see shows. So we used to have to get out of town pretty quickly or at least Jim did to do a show between Christmas and New Year’s. At one point Jim got the bright idea to see if he could do a show in Milwaukee,” says Jeannie about the Pabst Theater tradition they started 10 years ago.

“Once Jim did a show at the Pabst he was like, ‘This place is phenomenal!’ Having played theaters all over the country, the Pabst is definitely the cream of the crop. The employees, the audiences, the venue, it’s all just a terrific experience.”

This year the Gaffigans have merged two of their traditions. An additional show was added to the Pabst run, with 100 percent of the ticket sales going to the Riverwest Food Pantry, where Jeannie’s brother Vincent is the executive director. The family volunteers at the Pantry when they’re in town and saw this as an opportunity to give back even more to the community.


The Gaffigans have achieved much success with their stand-up tours, specials, and two best-selling books (Dad is Fat and Food: A Love Story), but besides Welcome to New York, the coveted sitcom deal has eluded them until last year.

The TV Land debut of The Jim Gaffigan Show was a decade in the making. Originally optioned by NBC and piloted twice by CBS, both networks passed a blessing in disguise.

The deal the Gaffigans landed with the small cable network gave them full creative control. Like Louie (FX) and Maron (IFC), The Jim Gaffigan Show is a single camera program centered around the titular comic’s real life. It’s a smart, funny show with an excellent supporting cast and tons of heart.

“A lot of times what happens is that a great comedian will get a TV deal and you’ll watch the show and say, ‘Well, this isn’t funny,’ or ‘This isn’t the point-of-view that I know and am a fan of.’ Because it’s been given over to a committee. Other people are deciding what’s funny and not funny, what’s marketable and not marketable,” explains Jeannie.

The Jim Gaffigan Show explores aspects of the Gaffigans comedic perspective that are limited by the stand-up format and highlights Jeannie’s contribution and talents as a writer and producer.

She originally considered playing the “Jeannie” role herself, but realized it would elongate the production, considering she was already a head writer and executive producer. As it turned out, the time and energy required far exceeded their expectations — and that led to their decision to call it quits after the second season.

“The irony is that one of the reasons we wanted to do a show in New York was so we could spend more time with our family, so we wouldn’t be traveling as much. But what happens when you’re writing, producing and later directing a show is that it becomes an all-encompassing life. We were doing 80 hours a week for six months of the year,” exclaims Jeannie.

“If you’re writing a show about being a comedian with five kids in New York City, you have to actually experience being a parent of five kids in New York City, or you’re not going to be true to yourself. At some point I was spending more time with the TV kids. Our family comes first. We’re responsible with raising good human beings to go into this insane world.”


The TV Land show marks a turning point in the Gaffigans’ careers. They are now looking to develop limited-run, episodic projects and are tinkering with the idea of producing other people’s scripts.

Meanwhile, their fifth stand-up special will be released in early 2017 and the couple are currently writing their sixth.

Jim is also being offered more complex roles in TV and film. He is in an upcoming film, The Bleeder, alongside Naomi Watts, Ron Perlman, Liev Schreiber, and Elizabeth Moss, and has joined the cast of the cable TV show Fargo.

“It’s going to expand the perception of Jim beyond the ‘Hot Pockets guy.’ I think our show is really funny and we talked about Jim’s obsession with food and that’s great, but there’s so much more to him,” says Jeannie.

She is happy with her own career path and rejects criticism that she’s taken a backseat to her husband.

“I have the best of both worlds. I could leave certain things about raising my kids up to somebody else, but that wouldn’t sit right with me. I have this great family, I have five kids, and I’m still able to have success on my own.”

“As I’ve supported Jim so much over the years he’s also supported me. And he completely trusts me to be his third eye. That’s an amazing position to be in because he knows that I don’t have a hidden agenda. I’m in it for life. It’s a pretty great deal for both of us.”

ON STAGE, ON SCREEN Jim Gaffigan will perform four shows at the Pabst Theater December 29 – 31. The Jim Gaffigan Show Season 1 is available on DVD and Season 2 is currently streaming on Hulu.com.


Did you go to Rufus King?


Okay, right. Because I went to Rufus King and I remember being in the theater director Mr. Mackinson’s office and seeing a prominently placed headshot of one of the Noth sisters.

That was definitely me.

Mackinson spoke fondly of you. So you were doing theater back then and I read that you were exposed to theater early on it life…

Yeah my father Dominic Noth was the theater and film critic for the Milwaukee Journal for like 30 years. I saw a lot of theater and film and we went out to a lot of theater festivals growing up.

And you have 8 brothers and sisters?

That’s right.

And where do you fall in that order?

I’m the first.

And what was that like, being the oldest child?

It was pretty chaotic in our house. I kind of got put into the role of director producer pretty early just by default. I was always really organized and when we had block parties I would say, “Okay, we’re going to do a number from Grease,” and I’d rope everybody into doing stuff. I was a little bit of a bossy big sister.

What part of town did you grow up on?

We grew up right around UWM on the east side.

It sounds like you were doing theater pretty young. When did you have a sense that that’s what you wanted to pursue after high school? What precipitated that?

I went to UW-Madison and for the first couple years of school you just get your requirement credits going. I didn’t actually pursue theater there at all. I mean I saw theater in Madison and I enjoyed it. But then I was thinking, “Obviously you can’t make a living doing that.” I thought I had to go into something like, you know, my father is a journalist so I  started working on journalism and communications.

In the summer when I was back in Milwaukee I got involved with a theater company working with kids for my summer job. There was a program called the Schneider Arts Academy, which was a privately and publicly funded summer theater program for kids from different Milwaukee public high schools that would have to audition. That was run by Ray Jivoff, who is now with the Skylight Theater. I knew a board member from when I was in grade school at Lloyd Street School and she kind of singled me out and said, “Why don’t you take a job with this company?”  

I started off as a choreographer and assistant director. I found so much joy in doing that. It was something that really made me feel alive. And it started to be apparent that I wanted to pursue more of directing and acting. What happened was that because my father was an employee at the Milwaukee Journal and I got pretty high grades at UW-Madison I qualified for a merit scholarship for the kids of Journal employees. So I got a scholarship to Marquette University, which is a smaller university but had the great theater department. I transferred there and became a theater major.

Everybody who graduated from Marquette at least at the time would then take a minor in philosophy or theology. I hadn’t taken any theology at UW-Madison, so the summer before I transferred I wound up studying at UWM, which was walking distance from my home.  So I really started getting into the Milwaukee scene a bit as a young adult. I discovered that there was  a lot of great theater going on.  

While I was at Marquette I went to do Shakespeare at the Shaw Festival with Milwaukee Chamber Theater. Then right after I got my BFA I continued at Marquette to get my master’s in directing. Then I got an internship with the Milwaukee Repertory Theater.

When I was working at the Rep it became pretty apparent to me that I needed to find my way beyond Milwaukee to get into theater in Milwaukee. It felt like there was kind of a niche group of actors that were always getting work and they weren’t coming from the rank-and-file interns, they were coming in from New York and Chicago. It became pretty apparent to me that I needed to find my way beyond Milwaukee in order to gain experience rather than just be in school. So that’s when I went to New York with really it in mind to pursue this and that’s how I wound up being in entertainment.

What time period was it when you moved back to Milwaukee as a young adult?

That was in the mid 90s.

What did you get up to in Milwaukee? What memories of the city do you have?

Oh my God, I was working so much. I guess I would go to Shank Hall. I love live music. Milwaukee is great for live music. A lot of times at night I was doing theater,  so I wasn’t socializing that much. But I love live music and I would go to different venues around Milwaukee. I remember Fuel Cafe from back in the day. I liked Lixx Frozen Custard, it was on Downer.

Can you recall any of the shows you did during high school at King?

I did a play called “Nuts.” I did “You’re A Good Man Charlie Brown.” I did a lot of one act plays. Mr. Mackinson was fan of one act plays. They weren’t doing mainstage productions at that point. I went to Lloyd Street School for elementary and I remember big kids in my neighborhood being students at King and going to see them in big musicals in the King auditorium. But by the time I got there it was all in the Little Theater, so there were a lot of one acts. I wound up coming back to King in the late 90s to direct “A Midsummer Night’s Dream in the Little Theater and that was amazing.

Awesome. Did you find that when you were doing theater early on that you enjoyed performing more, or being behind-the-scenes?

I guess when I was in high school it was performing, but then later when I worked at the Schneider Arts Academy I loved being a part of every aspect of the performance; the staging, the costumes, the acting. I felt like as a director you got a chance to play all those roles. I love acting but I think that my niche is directing and producing.

For a lot of people when they get to New York, especially people from the Midwest, it’s kind of sink-or-swim, in that the city is trying to kick your ass and you got to kick back or get out. How did you find New York when you first moved there?

I found that I made about exactly the amount of money that I needed for rent, so that was a big eye opener. I was one of those people who vowed not to carry any debt besides my student loans. But the first time I wanted to go home for Christmas I had to put it on a credit card. It was really hard and really expensive to live in New York.  

I found a way to do it by being involved in the catering industry. You could design your schedule around shows you were in. It was the kind of job where you were your own booker. I found a way to survive doing that. Later I got involved with a theater company that consisted of a bunch of graduates from Carnegie Melon. That was also a Milwaukee connection because there was a guy who was an actor who graduated from Carnegie Melon with my brother Vincent. We’d meet in the basement of a church on Monday nights and it became this pretty exceptional theater company. We’d create all these original plays and staged them and performed them and that was really great to get to know the theater scene and the grassroots movement of theater in New York CIty.

Then I wound up taking freelance artist-in-residence teaching jobs at various schools because at that time a lot of the funding was being cut from public schools in NYC for arts programs. So non-profit companies came up with the idea to create a fund for visiting artists, whether they were visual artists or performing artists or musicians, people would do residencies at schools. I got involved with that teaching improv and reading scenes with public school kids. Through that I decided to start a not-for-profit company in the late 90s called “Shakespeare on the Playground.” I would stage plays with middle school kids and I enjoyed some success doing that.

It seems like you were pretty successful being involved in the more “serious” theater community in New York. When did you start frequenting the comedy scene, the improv troupes?

Well, I was always involved in improv. That is one of the things that I feel is a really important tool for actors to have. It creates a relationship between the group that’s performing. It’s an exercise in talking and listening. The challenge of acting is being in the moment and responding, truly talking and listening to each other. So improv is a part of every actor’s exercise program. They have to workout that part of their brain. So I was always in improv groups when I was doing theater.

Improv groups tend to be comic based. I got involved with a lot of people in improv groups in New York and eventually got into a group that started writing original sketches. That was called “King Baby.” We started writing and performing comedy sketches in different venues around New York. That’s how I got involved in the comedy scene. But it was just one of the many things that I was doing.

At the exact same time I met Jim, who was a neighbor of mine. I didn’t really know what he was doing but I knew that he lived on my block so we crossed paths a lot.  I think we crossed paths at a comedy club and then eventually we went out to lunch and got to know each other. He did some volunteer work for my organization,  Shakespeare on the Playground. Then shortly after that I started working with him because he got his first sitcom. I was helping him with his acting, sort of breaking down the scenes. kind of a “You work with me, I’ll work with you” thing.

We found that we worked really well together. I was already aware of the fact that he was a comedian. At that time comedians started to produce their own CDs. So Jim said, “Do you think you can produce a CD for me?” And I was like, “Yeah, I’d love to do that, that’s my thing.” So I produced Jim’s first CD. It was a pretty successful endeavor, so I produced the next one. We moved on to DVDs and started writing together, then we got married and here we are.

What did you like about Jim when you first got to know him?

He was just one of the smartest and funniest people I’ve ever met. Also the fact that once we started working together he had the same work ethic that I did and it is very difficult to find that kind of…it’s difficult to be in a relationship with someone when they don’t have that same thing. Like, “Why do you care so much about your job?” So Jim was the same type as me in that way.

Also, he’s from a family of six kids, so there was a language that we understood right away.  And he grew up on Lake Michigan, but he was on the Indiana side outside of Chicago. So we grew up kind of in the same region. We liked the familiarity of each other and we liked the way that we worked together.

It seems like family is really important to you, as you come from really large family and it seems like you’re fairly tight knit. The evolution to start a family with Jim, did that happened pretty quickly? Were you both on board right away? Was there any sort of sense of maybe we should wait and keep working on our careers?

Not really. At that point we had been together and working together for about two years before we got engaged and it was a whirlwind. Right after we got married I got pregnant with my first child so we didn’t really have time to plan a family. We didn’t really think about it. We just started having kids and moving our life around them. It wasn’t something that we thought out or planned, we were just open to it  and now we have this amazing big family.

So the Pabst series of shows,  how did that first start?

Jim is the youngest in his family, so when we started dating all of his siblings had their own families. Aside from reunions, where the whole family got together, they all did their own Christmases. But my family still all came home to Mom and Dad for Christmas. So it became a tradition for us to go to Milwaukee for Christmas, which is usually the worst weather possible, but family calls. So Jim really got into that. He was quickly adopted into my family as the 10th kid. He and my dad really get along. They both love to talk about everything, they have very similar minds, they like to debate about stuff. And my mom of course loves Jim.  

The holidays are a time when people have off and want to go see shows. So we used to have to get out of town pretty quickly — or at least Jim did — to do a show between Christmas and New Year’s. At one point Jim got the bright idea to see if he could do a show in Milwaukee so we didn’t have to come in and then go out. That’s how the Pabst started all those years ago. Once Jim did a show at the Pabst he was like, ‘This place is phenomenal!” Everything about the Pabst and the people who run the Pabst is A+. Having played theaters all over the country, the Pabst is definitely the cream of the crop. The employees, the audiences, the venue, it’s all just a terrific experience and has become a part of our tradition.

Speaking of going out and doing stand-up, I read that you plan his stand-up gigs around the kids time off so you can bring the whole family with. Is that still true?

Yes, we didn’t really have it together early in our marriage because when I had one baby we just took the baby on tour with us. Then when I had two babies that were still in diapers it became difficult to drag them all over the place. That was corresponding with starting to do theater work. That kind of tore us apart in a lot of ways. We couldn’t really connect because he was on the road and I was still writing and producing with him, but the phone was bad and with the babies and the schedule it was really difficult. Around baby number three we were like, “Let’s restructure this whole thing, so that we can maintain our healthy family environment.”

What we’ve done is the longer tours are scheduled around the kids school vacations. So if Jim does a oner, which is what we call doing one night in the city and then flying out, we won’t travel with him. But if it’s a longer stay we’ll book all those things around the kids time off. That way we can go on tour and give the kids the experience of being with us while we’re working.

And you get a tour bus sometimes?

Yes, we tour on a huge Greyhound-sized rock and roll bus with bunk beds. Of course we stop in hotels too and things like that, but we go from city to city with our kids around the country on a big tour bus.

I was at a Pabst show a few years ago and instead of having a comic open the kids came out and were Irish dancing and being super adorable. It’s very sweet that you do that and expose them to the industry in that way. It makes you think of like the family bands of the 60s and 70s.

Yeah we get a lot of jokes about that.

And you got some shows coming up in London. Are you going to bring the family out to England?

Yep we’re all going to London and we’ve done that before. We’ve traveled internationally with our kids and it’s surprisingly easy. My kids are so travel savvy that it’s kind of scary. I think this year was the first year in the last couple of years that they did not just start taking off their shoes when we get to security. And I’m like, “You don’t have to take off your shoes anymore!” They recently made a rule that if you’re under 12 you don’t take your shoes off anymore. But my kids are so used to growing up in airports that they just instinctively take off their shoes.

Is your oldest babysitting age yet?

She could but I wouldn’t leave them alone with her because if something happened God forbid I’d probably be jailed. But she is amazing. One of the testaments to how great the whole experience has been for my family with all the traveling is that we’ve become so close. People have asked me, “Aren’t your older ones at the point where they want to stay home with friends and not go out on the road?” But I haven’t experienced that yet.

Of course they fight and argue like all kids, but they really enjoy being together as a group.  They’ve really bonded in a way between having them come with us on tour,  sometimes they’ll do a fun opening for Jim where they sing a song or dance and introduce him. And they’re not show kids at all, they just do it for dad and for the family. They’ve developed this camaraderie and I think it’s a testament to how great the whole experience has been for my family.  It’s something that happens in an entertainment situation like when you talk about people who are doing movies or TV shows or a play together, there’s just this bonding that happens amongst the group.

And I’m going to guess that living in your two-bedroom apartment for so long probably brought them closer together.

Oh yeah, I totally think so.

Let’s talk about The Jim Gaffigan Show now. I know it was a long journey, as TV shows can be, with different development deals and what not. The fact that you were able to get it where you had full creative control, that seems so rare and lucky in today’s media landscape.

Yeah that was pretty incredible. But I wouldn’t say that it’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, because that’s just the way it has to be. I just feel like we’ve been through so much. You can’t write a show about your life and then give it over to somebody. It’s your life. I think you can be a part of somebody else’s vision and make a great contribution to it. But I think a lot of times what happens is that a great comedian will get a TV deal and you’ll watch the show and say, “Well, this isn’t funny,” or “This isn’t the point-of-view that I know and am a fan of.” Because it’s been given over to a committee. Other people are deciding what’s funny and not funny, what’s marketable and not marketable.

And that’s just the way it is in the traditional paradigm of sitcoms. So us being able to kind of take what we had, which was a  sitcom that was designed for network television and then once we did get creative control we still had the same model but then we could sort of incorporate more of what our audiences over the years have gotten to know and love about Jim’s comedy, we then applied that to the TV show without having people giving notes on it and stuff.

What were some of your major influences for the show? What are some of the shows that you and Jim really love?

I can’t speak for Jim, but I grew up watching Seinfeld. So I really liked the different storylines, and the crazy characters, which all revolves around the voice and the point-of-view of the main character. And also how we would go to a silly level after establishing a grounded reality. And that’s kind of what we do in our comedy. So that was one of the influences.

Even some dramas have influenced us. We love dramas, we love our Netflix shows,  the dramas that we follow. Especially in Season Two, and to a certain extent in Season One, there’s a lot of flashback and fantasy sequences, which doesn’t limit us to just the apartment and the way the characters behave in the formula that was created for the show. It gave us a lot of things to go on. That’s another thing that’s great about stand-up comedy, you can have a grounded idea and then you can put it in outer space if you want. It’s about taking it to the next level, and I think once you ground something in reality then the audience will come along with you and enjoy the humor of “What if” this or that happened.

Yeah that makes me think of different episodes from the show. I’ve been binge watching the first season and I really love it, it’s fantastic.

Thank you so much. We had a great time doing it, it was really a labor of love.

For sure. But like you said it was a labor, and it was very labor-intensive. I read that you were working so many hours that you were forming what felt like a family with your production team, but that it was taking away time from your actual family.

The irony is that one of the reasons we wanted to do a show in New York was so we could spend more time with our family, so we wouldn’t be traveling as much. But what happens when you’re writing, producing and later directing a show is that it becomes an all-encompassing life. We were doing 80 hours a week for six months of the year.

At a certain point it becomes clear that if you’re writing a show about being a comedian with five kids in New York City, you have to actually experience being a parent of five kids in New York City, or you’re not going to be true to yourself. It wasn’t so much a matter of that the kids are going to be traumatized forever because Mom and Dad were both gone 80 hours a week for six months out of the year. It was more about looking ahead at what will happen as the show gets more successful and it won’t be possible to stop it.

If it had gone to the point where I think it was headed, being an established successful show, then you can’t just be like, “We’re not going to do this anymore.” You’re stuck, you’re not getting out. And so I think we have to be serious about what is that going to do to our kids? Because when we went for the live-action TV idea we had four kids and they played the kids on the show in the first pilot. Then they got too old to be the kids on the show.

In the first pilot my youngest at the time Michael was playing the two-year-old in the show and then the next year my son Patrick was playing the two-year-old in the show and the other kids were too old to be in the show. So I ended up spending more time with the TV kids really. At a certain point it’s like, one parent can do that, but if you have five kids you have to take responsibility for your life. I think that every once in awhile, if you look back over Jim and my trajectory of our careers, every few years we regroup and we do something else. We don’t want to get caught in something we can’t get out of, because it won’t be healthy for us as a family. The family comes first.

Now we can plan our next project like we do with the tours. We can plan it around serving our kids first, because we’re responsible with raising good human beings to go into this insane world, and that is our primary responsibility.

I think one of the things that the show has accomplished is that it’s really sort of brought you and your contribution, your partnership with Jim, more into the public eye. I’m a big comedy fan so I know from listening to old episodes of Comedy Bang Bang and WTF with Marc Maron that you and Jim are a strong comedy team, but I don’t think that was apparent in the public. What I think the show has accomplished is that it has brought that out. I know that sometimes people criticize you, saying things like “She put her career in the back seat for Jim’s,” but to me it’s really important and inspiring that you’re such a comedy team.

Yeah, I got asked questions several times about how is it that this person who’s like me, a show runner and a director and a writer and a female, how am I not doing either my own project or making the character of Jeannie Gaffigan in the show be more of a superstar. I really think that I have the best of both worlds, because I get to do what I love and keep my family together.  

I think one of the reasons it’s so hard to keep a family together in the entertainment world when both of the parents are crazy workers like Jim and I, is that you just start doing your own stuff and you’re not serving the main goal, which is your family. In that sense Jim is a powerhouse, and I’m not saying that I’m not, but I’m the one who has the babies. That’s just my gender. I have children. I could leave certain things about raising my kids up to somebody else, but that wouldn’t sit right with me.

So I’m able to have the best of both worlds. Here I have this great family, I have five kids, I’m still able to work, I’m still able to have success on my own and be recognized as talented, and I don’t feel like I’m pushing the women’s movement back a million years, because I’ve found ways to game the system, if you will. I can have it all. And I think that if your ego gets caught up in it that’s when you know you have to make decisions and sacrifices in this world to get what you want. If you think you can control your life and say, “You know Jim, I’m actually going to go to Vancouver and direct a series and now you’re in charge of the kids,” that’s not the best decision for our family right now.

As I’ve supported Jim so much over the years he’s also supported me. And he completely trusts me to be his third eye. That’s an amazing position to be in because he knows that I don’t have a hidden agenda. I’m not trying to ride his coattails or to use him as a résumé builder, I’m in it for life. It’s a pretty good deal for both of us.

As someone who is sort of a recent parent in that I’ve been living with my girlfriend and her two kids for the last year, this show has kind of made me more confident with being a parent and has made parenting cool in a way.

Well that’s amazing, that’s a huge compliment. And I think because we don’t want to alienate single people or people without kids or people who don’t want kids, we try to mix it up a little bit with the points of view on the show. But at the same time, you write what you know. You can’t think that your life is over when you become a parent, because it’s definitely not.

Yeah I mean I love the transition and all the new challenges. Just a couple last questions, in terms of where your careers are now, I saw that Jim is joining the cast of Fargo, which is a pretty heavy show. Would you like to see him go into more dramedy, leading man type stuff? Sort of like what Patton Oswalt has done with some of his films.

Oh I definitely think that’s already started. When I met Jim I didn’t know anything about comedy, I didn’t follow stand-up comedians. And when I met him I knew he was a comedian but that’s not what we start working on. We started working on acting. Because I was coming from an environment of trained actors, Jim was an untrained actor and there was something so genuine and natural about his acting that was just inspiring to me about the level of talent that he had as an actor.  

That’s been true over the past two years and especially now that Jim just did a dramatic role in a Liev Schreiber film called The Bleeder, which is going to be coming out next year. Fargo was actually one of our shows. It’s a very dark comedy drama kind of thing and I really got into Noah Hawley. He’s another renaissance man who writes, directs, produces and does it all, so I automatically want to read what he has to say. One of the things that really inspired me about him as a showrunner is that he welcomes network notes.

And that’s sort of the way that I feel about it. If you put all your heart and soul into something and someone has notes on it, you should be able to defend all of your ideas. There might be something in there from an audience’s perspective that might not be clear. So I really liked hearing that when I read the article and saw the interview with Hawley. So we really got into Fargo and when the Fargo opportunity came along I was like, ‘This is incredible, this is the type of show that is an important move to make. It’s going to expand the acting horizons and it’s going to expand the perception of Jim beyond ‘The Hot Pockets guy.’” Even though I think our show is really funny and we talked about Jim’s obsession with food and I think that’s really great, but there’s so much more to him. There’s so much more that I know about him that I want to share with the world.

So kind of coming full circle to where you guys started. Last question, what are some of your creative goals?

Well, we definitely are really excited that our 5th hour special is coming out in 2017.  We’re also starting our 6th hour of comedy. We started writing it because we just filmed and wrapped our 5th comedy special. And I directed and produced that as well. Jim and I had a lot of fun with framing it in a way that is unlikely. We’ve done four comedy specials where we had a fun opening sequence with the marquee outside of the theater and backstage, but this time we got a lot more theatrical and a little more dark with the opening. Just kind of having that ability to be like, “We’re going to do this and not have anyone go, ‘Oh my God, that’s just too weird.’”

It’s just like, “Okay, you can go ahead and do that.” So creatively we want to continue to produce our own stuff. We might want to look at producing scripts that we respond to that are other people scripts. But I think that our next goal besides writing our 6th hour of comedy is probably to develop something that we could do over like a six to eight episode arc. Something with maybe a streaming service, so it’s breaking the model of traditional commercial television.

Awesome. It sounds like you got a lot going on and you’ve been doing fantastic work and I really appreciate you taking the time out to talk to me today.

Thank you so much for the interview. I also wanted to mention that we added another show in Milwaukee to benefit the Riverwest Food Pantry.

Yeah I saw that, how did that come about?

My brother is the executive director of the Riverwest Food Pantry, which has become a tradition for us to volunteer at when we visit Milwaukee. And as the whole world knows Milwaukee is constantly in the news in a negative manner because of the intense segregation and the alienation that people feel from each other. Particularly in this political climate it’s important for us to try to make a bridge between cultures. When we come to Milwaukee, like I said, family is the tradition. So we get together with our family and one of the things that we did starting several years back was bring our kids to volunteer at the food pantry, stock the shelves, take people shopping and give people a little bit of assistance.

Since Vincent became the executive director, one of the things that he’s trying to do is that rather than giving people fish, he’s trying to give them fishing poles. He’s started a lot of workshops between job fairs, healthy cooking seminars, stuff like that. It’s just a blossoming thing that’s happening in Riverwest, which is sort of like a bridge between the communities. And so a couple years back my brother was backstage at the Pabst after a show and he’s a huge supporter of us and we’re a huge supporter of him, and Matt Beringer and Gary Witt who are the geniuses behind the Pabst Theater and the revitalization of downtown, they got to talking with Vincent and they started to do some work together to better Milwaukee.  

This idea started germinating a couple of years ago about doing something really special for the 10th Anniversary. It just seemed appropriate to do something to help enrich the culture in Milwaukee and to help bridge the gap between communities that traditionally are separate. It’s a starting point to go along with the refinement of downtown, where they’re developing the river and there’s some really incredible things happening in Milwaukee and we just want to be a part of it and in our own way give back to the community for all they’ve given us.

That’s great. We appreciate it for sure.

It’s an important thing that needs to happen and you’re starting to see the results about people caring for their community.

Definitely. Have a great week and enjoy the holidays.

You too, Happy Thanksgiving.

Take care.

Trump looms large as Republicans gather for state convention


Wisconsin Republicans struggling with accepting Donald Trump as the party’s presidential nominee gather this weekend for the annual state convention in Green Bay, where disparate reactions to the billionaire businessman will be on full display.

While some influential Republicans in the state have yet to publicly warm to Trump and others remain staunchly opposed, still other office holders and activists are slowly coming around and say more will follow.

“People need to be able to lick their wounds, regroup, and move into the next stage,” said Brian Westrate, an activist from Eau Claire who voted for Texas Sen. Ted Cruz. “I do believe the party will coalesce.”

Westrate is one of the state’s 42 delegates to the national convention and will be among about 1,000 party faithful at the convention that begins Friday.

“I’m 100 percent moving forward,” Westrate said. “We are going to do everything possible to elect the conservative nominee.”

House Speaker Paul Ryan, Sen. Ron Johnson and Gov. Scott Walker are among the state and federal elected officials who are slated to speak. Each represents a segment of where Republicans stand on Trump.

Ryan said last week that he couldn’t support Trump yet, but the two men said after a meeting Thursday they’re committed to working together. Johnson, who is in a tough re-election battle with Democrat Russ Feingold, is standing by his pledge to back whoever becomes the nominee. And Walker, who endorsed Cruz and campaigned hard for him in Wisconsin, is sticking by Trump for the general election.

Others aren’t yet on board. Prominent conservative Milwaukee talk radio host Charlie Sykes, who embarrassed Trump in an interview days before Wisconsin’s primary, remains outspoken against him. And Republican Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke, who warned that Trump as the nominee would “destroy” other GOP candidates’ chances elsewhere on the ballot, refuses to endorse him.

State Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald called last week for Republicans to get behind Trump. But Assembly Speaker Robin Vos says he’s still looking for Trump to offer a “Republican vision that people can rally toward.”

That’s a feeling echoed by many other Republicans.

Bill Jaeck, a longtime Republican activist and fellow delegate to the national convention from Yorkville, said he was in “discover mode” with Trump. Jaeck said it would help if Trump would say who would be in his cabinet, and who he would nominate for any U.S. Supreme Court vacancies.

Patty Reiman, a Republican activist from Whitefish Bay and a delegate to the national convention, did not support Trump but is taking another look at him out of “due diligence.”

“I am a true Republican so I do have some concerns with his stands on some of the issues,” she said.

Reiman, like many Republicans, said she was worried about how having Trump as the presidential candidate could affect other races. But she said she thinks the party would ultimately support Trump.

“I believe we will because it’s important that we do not have a Democrat in office,” Reiman said. “If our candidate is Donald Trump, he will also align himself with good people who are good conservatives. I’m confident this will all come together.”

Trump clearly has ground to make up among Republicans in Wisconsin, a state where he lost to Cruz just five weeks ago by 13 points.

In a Marquette University Law School poll taken a week before Wisconsin’s primary, 55 percent said they were uncomfortable with the idea of Trump as president — the highest negatives for any candidate. Even among Republican primary voters, 23 percent said they were uncomfortable with Trump — higher than either Cruz or Ohio Gov. John Kasich.

That same poll showed Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton defeating Trump by 10 points in Wisconsin.

Follow Scott Bauer on Twitter at http://twitter.com/sbauerAP and find more of his work at http://bigstory.ap.org/content/scott-bauer

Anti-Bradley protest scheduled tonight at Marquette debate

Protesters plan to stage an anti-Bradley demonstration tonight outside Marquette Law School, 1215 W. Michigan St., where Wisconsin Supreme Court candidate JoAnne Kloppenburg will debate interim Justice Rebecca Bradley.

Saul Newton, whose affiliated with the issue advocacy group We Are Wisconsin, said Bradley’s hateful anti-gay writings and close ties to corporate PACs and the Republican Party make her unsuitable to serve on the state’s highest court. His group is calling on Bradley, who was appointed last fall by Scott Walker to serve as an interim justice following the death of Justice Patrick Crooks, to resign her position and drop out of the race.

“There is no room for hate on our courts,” Newton said. “She has a decades-long record of not showing the kind of judgment we expect out of the state’s highest court.”

Newton said his group, which brings together progressive constituencies at the local level to mutually empower each other, seldom becomes involved in specific races. But after following Bradley’s campaign “very closely,” he said, the group concluded “she can’t be trusted to hold everyone equally under the eyes of the law.”

We Are Wisconsin held its first demonstration against Bradley last night outside Madison’s Monona Terrace, where a Republican fundraiser was being held for Bradley. Only a small handful of people turned out for the protest, which wasn’t announced until yesterday afternoon, Newton said.

He expects a larger presence at tonight’s debate, which begins at 7 p.m.

The group plans to hold a third demonstration on Friday, March 18, at a debate hosted by Wisconsin Public Television.

“Our message is definitely getting out there that Bradley can’t be trusted,” Newton said. “We’re hearing a lot from local leaders and advocates.”

Bradley’s hateful anti-gay writings could sway undecideds

Interim Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Rebecca Bradley has gone from embarrassed to apologetic to angry this week as opponents released opinion pieces from her college days railing against homosexuals with AIDS, Bill Clinton supporters and abortion.

As she vies for a full 10-year term on the court in the April 5 election, those writings  are unlikely to erode her existing support, particularly among the GOP’s religious-right base. But they could have some impact on voters who know little of either candidate — or don’t even know there’s a Supreme Court race going on.

A Marquette Law School poll in February found 60 percent of registered voters didn’t know or hadn’t heard enough to form an opinion on Bradley, and about the same had no opinion on her opponent, Appeals Court Judge JoAnne Kloppenburg.

“Most voters will be forming views of these candidates for the first time between now and April 5,” said Charles Franklin, director of the poll. He said that means it’s critical how well each campaign harnesses or reacts to the issue.

But University of Wisconsin-Madison political science professor Ryan Owens said he doesn’t think it will sway many people’s decisions in the state’s highly partisan landscape, unless comments continue to trickle out in the coming weeks.

“I think the climate right now is just so toxic that people who were going to vote against her just solidified in that position,” Owens said. Those who supported her will continue to do so, he said.

The race is officially nonpartisan, but clearly split on ideological lines. Liberals largely back Kloppenburg, while Republicans and conservatives support Bradley support Bradley, who was appointed to the Supreme Court by Republican Gov. Scott Walker in October.

Walker has known Bradley since they were both students involved in GOP politics at Marquette University. Walker dropped out before graduating while Bradley went on to become a lawyer affiliated with far-right legal groups. She only became a judge when Walker appointed her to a circuit court vacancy in 2012. He subsequently appointed her to every judicial position she’s held, including her current one as a temporary Supreme Court justice.

Bradley has spent almost every day apologizing for the hate-filled college opinion pieces she wrote since th liberal advocacy group One Wisconsin Now brought them to light last Monday.

In one letter to the editor for Marquette University’s student newspaper, she wrote that homosexual and drug-addicted AIDS victims “basically commit suicide through their behavior” and don’t deserve her sympathy. In another column, she wrote people are better off contracting AIDS than cancer, because those with the “politically correct” disease would get more funding.

Bradley declined an interview, but she has said this week a “mosaic of life experiences” has changed her views.

Devin Gatton, president of the gay-rights group Log Cabin Republicans, said when he first saw the writings he thought they were disgusting.

But he said what he’s learned about Bradley in the days since has convinced him she’s changed. She attended a 2013 fundraiser for gay-rights group FAIR Wisconsin, the same year she won her only election, to retain the circuit court position to which Walker first placed her. Since then, her campaign says she’s presided over adoptions to gay couples. And Gatton says she gave him a “satisfactory” answer on gay marriage — that she would follow the Constitution. Of course, that’s something that all justices must do.

“Every politician apologizes,” Gatton said. “It’s the things she’s done since then.”

But FAIR Wisconsin Executive Director Megin McDonell said it would take a lot more than attending a fundraiser (in an election year) to convince her Bradley’s had “some kind of radical transformation” since those writings.

“People can change, definitely, people can change,” McDonell said. “But I can’t really say that I’m convinced at this point.”

Steve Starkey, executive director of LGBT community center OutReach, likewise said he hasn’t seen sufficient evidence.

“So far, the apologies have been kind of empty,” Starkey said.

Owens, the professor, said voters overall tend to see statements made a long time ago for what they are — an immature student caught up in a political wave.

But Bradley’s career is still tethered to Walker and is being run partially by the Republican Party, which has a platform against same-sex marriage.

Associated Press reporter Bryna Godar provided reporting for this article.

Regional briefs: Protection grows for lake’s ‘stepping stones’ | And more

The Green Bay National Wildlife Refuge will expand to include most of St. Martin Island and all of Rocky Island in Lake Michigan, adding another 1,290 acres to the 330-acre refuge.

The islands are part of the Grand Traverse chain, which extends from Wisconsin’s Door Peninsula to Michigan’s Garden Peninsula.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and The Nature Conservancy announced the expansion in late September.

“It’s gratifying to see our shared conservation missions coming together to protect these unique Great Lakes islands,” said Tom Melius, Midwest regional director of the FWS. “We couldn’t do this without a common vision among all the partners.”

Green Bay National Wildlife Refuge was established in 1912 as habitat for migratory birds and consists of the 325-acre Plum Island and the smaller Pilot and Hog islands. With the addition of St. Martin and Rocky Islands, the refuge will increase by five times its original size.

Along with the other islands in the Grand Traverse chain, St. Martin Island is part of the Niagara Escarpment and has significant bluffs, which have rare native snails and plants associated with them. In addition to the bluffs, the island also supports forests, wetlands and an extensive cobblestone beach.

Both St. Martin and Rocky islands, along with others in the Green Bay National Wildlife Refuge, provide important stopover habitat for birds that migrate through the Great Lakes each spring and fall.

In other regional news …

• GE GOING: General Electric Co. announced in late September plans to move 350 Wisconsin jobs to Canada due to Congress’ inaction to reauthorize the Export-Import Bank. In response, U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore, D-Milwaukee, said, “We have seen significant job losses across the country directly related to the failure of House Republicans to reauthorize the Export-Import Bank. Now, the state of Wisconsin is feeling the brunt of their extreme economic agenda.”

• RYAN’S DISINTEREST: U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan of Janesville said he’s not interested in replacing Rep. John Boehner as speaker of the House of Representatives. Boehner announced in late September that he will be resigning at the end of October.

• LAKEFRONT LAND DEAL: The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources’ board has put off deciding whether to sell a parcel of state-owned lakefront property to one of Scott Walker’s major donors. The agency wants to sell 1.75 acres along the Rest Lake shoreline to Elizabeth Uihlein for $275,000. Uihlein and husband Richard donated nearly $3 million to Walker’s presidential super PAC. She owns a condominium complex adjacent to the property but it lacks lake access.

• DON’T MESS WITH HIS VIEW: Richard Uihlein is also in the news for seeking state approval to keep a 12-acre floating bog away from property in northern Wisconsin. He’s proposing moving the bog north and fastening it to the lake bed, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported. “This is the most preposterous idea that I have ever heard,” said Brett McConnell, an environmental specialist in the conservation department of the Lac Courte Oreilles band of Lake Superior Chippewa. “I would hope that every single person affiliated with the flowage would be opposed to this.”

• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE DATA: Forty-three people in Wisconsin lost their lives to domestic violence in 2014, according to the Wisconsin Domestic Violence Homicide Report released in conjunction with anti-violence walks hosted by the Zonta Clubs of Madison and Milwaukee and by End Domestic Abuse Wisconsin. The report says 36 people were victims of domestic violence homicides. Six people were perpetrators of homicides who then committed suicide and one individual was a perpetrator of domestic violence who was killed by responding law enforcement. 

• LIFTING THE CAP: University of Wisconsin-Madison officials plan to ask UW System regents for permission to lift the school’s cap on out-of-state students, a move they say would attract more young people to Wisconsin. It also would bolster the school’s coffers considerably as it struggles with deep budget cuts. Currently out-of-state undergraduate enrollment at any UW campus can’t exceed 27.5 percent of the total undergraduate enrollment based on a three-year average.

• BAN THE BOX: In response to a bipartisan bill recently introduced in Congress that removes the box on federal employment applications that ask whether job seekers have a past felony conviction, state Sen. Lena C. Taylor, D-Milwaukee, announced she planned to re-introduce her state “Ban the Box” bill “to give residents who have made a mistake in life a fighting chance.”

• COSBY LOSES DEGREE: Marquette University rescinded an honorary degree it awarded Bill Cosby in 2013, when he gave the annual commencement address. Other universities, including the Jesuit school Fordham University, have taken back degrees bestowed on Cosby. Cosby has been accused by at least 20 women of drugging and raping them. “By his own admission, Mr. Cosby engaged in behaviors that go entirely against our university’s mission and the guiding values we have worked so hard to instill on our campus,” Marquette president Michael Lovell and provost Daniel Myers wrote in a letter to the Marquette community.

WRIGHT RESULTS: Frank Lloyd Wright experts announced on Oct. 6 that the Madison house Linda McQuillen bought for $100,000 has been verified as an American System-Built House, part of Wright’s effort to develop and market well-designed homes at a more affordable level — his first effort to reach a broader audience. It is the second such house identified in the past four months, one out of only 16 ever built and 14 still standing.

Follow breaking news at

Where Wisconsin stands on immigration reform

By Scott Bauer

Associated Press

Things to know about how President Barack Obama’s plans to shield as many as 5 million immigrants from deportation affect Wisconsin:


The Washington, D.C.-based Migration Policy Institute reports that there were about 76,000 immigrants living illegally in Wisconsin in 2012. Of those, about 75 percent had been in the state for more than five years. Under Obama’s plan, deportation protections would be extended to parents of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, as long as those parents have been in the country for at least five years.


The number of unauthorized immigrants in Wisconsin remained relatively flat between 2009 and 2012, according to a report released by the Pew Research Center. The report said that populations grew or decreased in 21 states over that time. Seventy-six percent of the Wisconsin immigrants were from Mexico. That ranks Wisconsin seventh highest among all 50 states in terms of percentage of unauthorized immigrants from Mexico.


Wisconsin Democrats generally praised Obama’s action, while Gov. Scott Walker called it illegal. He joined other GOP governors in calling for a lawsuit, which House Republicans filed on Nov. 21. U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, who like Walker is mulling a possible run for president in 2016, called the president’s action legally suspect and a “stunning act of partisanship and polarization” that will make it more difficult to reach a bipartisan solution. Democratic U.S. Rep. Mark Pocan blamed House Republicans for not taking action, saying Obama was “using his constitutional authority to make much needed progress on this important issue.”


Immigrant rights advocates supported the president, while the state’s business and agriculture community was more circumspect. Wisconsin Farm Bureau spokesman Casey Langan said Obama’s plan was “not the comprehensive, long-term fix that agriculture is seeking.” He said Wisconsin farmers need a new, flexible visa program that allows for long-term access for workers to enter the U.S. Voces de la Frontera, an advocate group, had praise for Obama’s action and held informational sessions in Milwaukee to help immigrants understand what to do next.


A Marquette University Law School poll from October showed that 52 percent of respondents in Wisconsin believe unauthorized immigrants who are currently working in the U.S. should be allowed to stay in their jobs and apply for citizenship

Twenty-four percent said they should be required to leave the country, while 20 percent said they should stay as temporary guest workers.


It’s unclear how Obama’s action will be carried out at the state level, given Walker’s opposition. The governor’s spokeswoman did not immediately respond to an email seeking comment on what steps, if any, state agencies would take in light of the president’s order.

Meditation on time, existence at Haggerty Museum of Art

Three exhibitions at Marquette University’s Haggerty Museum of Art offer a powerful meditation on time and existence. Works by Alfred Leslie are built upon multiple layers of perception, and the echoes of memory in the present. The photographs of Nadav Kander ask if the cosmetics of new bridges and buildings are capable of destroying history. Collectively, the work of these artists draws up the edges of personal and cultural history with aesthetic persuasion.

Alfred Leslie and Frank O’Hara: ‘The Last Clean Shirt’

You know they found him in the back seat

of an old abandoned Ford

When I touched the hand of my brother Bill

It was stiff as a running board

— From Brother Bill (The Last Clean Shirt), written by Charles Otis, Jerry Leiber, and Mike Stoller. 

The funereal lyrics of this song, spirited gibberish in Finnish, poetic existential observations and quotidian matters form a backdrop to a black-and-white film made in 1964 by Alfred Leslie and Frank O’Hara. A black man and a white woman get into a convertible for a drive through Manhattan. A small round clock is strapped to the dashboard with tape, and off we go, our vantage point from the back seat. The man drives, actively listening to the woman’s energetic chatter. In the spacious front seat, she twists and turns, adjusting her position as though on a living room couch while the city, cars, and its inhabitants roll on past. 

So it seems an ordinary moment on an ordinary day. But repetition makes it something transcendent. The film runs three times over, with the same visuals but different audio. In the first iteration, we just hear the women’s voice and street sounds. The reprise includes text by poet O’Hara, presented as subtitles that offer an obtuse, surprising angle to the monologue. In the ultimate iteration we hear the mind of the silent man: on social critique, aspirations, thoughts of distance and wishes to be elsewhere. Leslie’s conception of the piece folds time over on itself, as the layers of thought and dialogue that must happen simultaneously are stretched in a linear sense in the screening room. 

The nature of time was revisited by Leslie in the suite of paintings, The Killing Cycle. O’Hara is involved in this series as well — as it was his unexpected death that prompted it, along with the fiery destruction of much of Leslie’s work. 

Alfred Leslie: ‘The Killing Cycle’ 

There are difficult years, and then there is the year 1966 in the life of Alfred Leslie. His close friend, poet Frank O’Hara, was spending the summer on Fire Island, and one night, the car he was traveling in along the beach broke down. While waiting for assistance, O’Hara wandered away. In the darkness, he was struck and killed by another car. 

To make matters worse, that autumn, just before a major retrospective at the Whitney Museum, Leslie’s home, studio and much of his work were destroyed in a massive fire. The conflagration and the tragedy of O’Hara’s death formed the motivating energy behind The Killing Cycle. 

Leslie was part of the Abstract Expressionist circles in New York City, but these canvases show his extraordinary power as a visual narrator. 

In “The Accident,” gaunt swimmers or furies emerge from the ocean, both terrifying and terrified as death plays out behind them. The nocturnal light illuminates the details of the scene. Leslie’s handling of paint and his creation of the human body in all its emotion is where the extraordinary power of his work resides. He borrows from the long historical traditions of painting — compare the strange tenebrous light and composition of “The Loading Pier” with Caravaggio’s “The Entombment.” 

But he also offers cool detachment — the acknowledgment that as death strikes, the world continues to move. The viewer may be immediately taken in by “The Cocktail Party,” where the golden, sculptural bodies of a young man and woman linger languidly on a summer night. The scenario of O’Hara’s accident is visually a minor note in the far distance, but it sets a major tone in the stark juxtaposition of idyllic summer and life that ends without warning. 

About this series, Leslie says, “What this work is really about I can’t say, except that formally it is meant to be multi-leveled with its implied meanings focused enough that they are all fighting for ascendency. And that these jostling meanings seek out the viewer’s perceptions to combine and recombine with each person so that no one interpretation succeeds.” 

Nadav Kander: ‘Yangtze — The Long River’

Photographer Nadav Kander is an explorer of time. Whereas Alfred Leslie’s sense of time is one where memory exists as strongly as the present, Kander’s photographs in The Long River understand time and memory as fragile, able to be erased, rewritten or subsumed by ambition and industry. He notes, “China is a nation that appears to be severing its roots by destroying its past. Demolition and construction were everywhere on such a scale that I was unsure if what I was seeing was being built or destroyed, destroyed or built.” 

In these large-scale photographic prints, the juxtaposition of humanity, nature and industry reappears in numerous forms. “Chongqing IV (Sunday Picnic)” is a moment of pleasure taken upon what is essentially a pile of rubble that used to be buildings and houses. The relationship of present to past is certainly uneasy — and even melancholy. Enormous bridges and buildings dwarf humble human inhabitants and dominate the Yangtze, a perpetual presence in these images. 

There is little that is overtly picturesque, but Kander brings a vivid sense of color and modern gravitas to these works. The ceaseless march of progress through the transformation of the built environment is a condition of every city. In that sense Yangtze — The Long River is in part a documentary and part an elegy. 

On exhibit

The Last Clean Shirt, The Killing Cycle, and Yangtze — The Long River continue through Dec. 23 at the Haggerty Museum of Art at Marquette University, 13th and Clybourn Streets. For more information, visit marquette.edu/haggerty. 

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— Photo: Courtesy of the artist and Flowers London/New York.

‘The Killing Cycle…’ & ‘The Last Clean Shirt’

Alfred Leslie and Frank O’Hara were two artists of the New York School, an informal collective active in the ’50s and ’60s who often worked together and shared ideas. One idea was The Last Clean Shirt, an experimental film Leslie and O’Hara created together that comments on the political and social climate of the ’60s through Leslie’s visuals and O’Hara’s words. Tragically, it would be one of their last collaborations — O’Hara was killed in a dune buggy accident a few years later. But it was not the last time O’Hara would inspire Leslie. That would come shortly after his death, when Leslie synthesized his grief over the loss of O’Hara and over a subsequent fire that destroyed his entire studio-home into The Killing Cycle…. A series of  “painted stories,” this series of narratives blend fact and fiction to describe O’Hara’s fatal crash. The Haggerty Museum of Art at 13th and Clybourn Streets in Milwaukee will exhibit the series together for the first time in more than 20 years, alongside a screening of The Last Clean Shirt.

Admission is free. Visit marquette.edu/haggerty for details.

Aug 20–Dec. 23


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Wisconsin Gov. Walker dodges question about lack of degree

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, a potential 2016 Republican candidate for president who lacks a college degree, said on April 9 that he would like to complete his course work to get his diploma, but he dodged a question about whether it was necessary to run for higher office.

Walker, who was first elected as governor in 2010 and faces re-election this fall, left Marquette University in 1990 when he was 34 credit hours short of completing his degree. He studied political science, economics and philosophy.

Walker took a job at the local chapter of the American Red Cross in February 1990 before dropping out of school three months later. Walker has said he thought about finishing his degree, but after getting married in 1993 and having a son in 1994, that was no longer an option.

Almost immediately after dropping out of Marquette, Walker ran for the state Assembly and lost in November 1990. The next time he ran, in 1993, Walker won a special election and went on to serve nine years in the Assembly before being elected Milwaukee County executive in 2002 and then governor eight years later.

“I don’t think I needed a college degree to be in the state Assembly, to be county executive nor to be governor,” Walker said when asked whether he needed a degree to run for president. “I don’t know about any other position.”

Walker has not said yet whether he will seek the Republican nomination for president, saying he’s focused solely on his re-election efforts this fall. Walker faces Democrat Mary Burke, a Harvard Business School graduate who is a former state commerce secretary and Trek Bicycle Corp. executive.

Not having a college degree hasn’t been a major issue in his previous races, but as he takes the steps that typically precede a presidential run, including the publication of a book last fall, appearances at national fundraisers and other GOP events, questions about it have been trailing him. He was asked about it again this week after speaking to third and fourth grade students at their school about the functions of government.

“In the end I think most people, for example governor, judge me based on performance and what we’re able to do,” Walker told reporters.

The lack of a college education has also come up in Georgia’s hotly contested Senate race.

David Perdue, a top candidate in a crowded GOP field, noted Republican hopeful Karen Handel’s lack of a degree during remarks captured on video, prompting Sarah Palin, the 2008 vice presidential nominee to leap to Handel’s defense.

In the footage, Purdue, a former Dollar General CEO, discusses the economy and the federal deficit and notes Handel’s lack of a college degree. “There’s a high school graduate in this race, OK?” he says. “I’m sorry, but these issues are so much broader, so complex.”

Handel, a former secretary of state, has said she left an abusive home as a teen and has used a message of overcoming obstacles as a key element of her campaigns. “She pulled herself up. Nothing was handed to her on a platter, fed to her on a silver spoonl,” Palin said last Thursday while speaking at a campaign event in Georgia.

Walker told reporters on April 9 that if he were to get his degree, it wouldn’t be to fill any requirement for political office but to encourage others to take similar action.

“I just think it would be a good thing,” Walker said.

Critics blast Scott Walker’s ‘tell-nothing’ book as shoddy stunt

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s new book isn’t exactly a tell-all. In fact, it glosses over or leaves out many of the most important parts of the story of his drive to destroy public unions and his subsequent recall battle.

“Unintimidated: A Governor’s Story and a Nation’s Challenge” is scheduled for release on Nov. 19. 

According to those who’ve previewed the book, three of the book’s most glaring omissions include: 

Jobs promise: Walker promised in his 2010 election campaign that after four years as governor the state would add 250,000 private-sector jobs. It was a lynchpin of his campaign, and Walker reiterated it during the recall two years later, even though numbers at that point showed he was on pace to only add half that many. Under his leadership, the state continually has rated near the bottom nationally in job creation.

Incredibly, Walker never even mentions the promise in his book. Instead, the book focuses on how many jobs the state lost prior to his taking office (a claim debunked by Politifact) and how Walker argued during the recall that monthly job-collection data being used against him was inaccurate.

John Doe: Six people, including three of Walker’s former aides, an appointee and a major campaign contributor, were convicted of criminal charges as part of a secret John Doe investigation of his gubernatorial campaign during the time he was serving as Milwaukee County executive and running for governor. 

Amazingly, Walker’s book doesn’t say anything about his closest advisers being convicted or the fact that he was interviewed by investigators and spent $650,000 on criminal defense attorneys.

Since the book was written, yet another John Doe investigation has gotten underway into possible criminal campaign violations tied to his recall race in 2011. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that the investigation was launched by the Milwaukee County District Attorney’s office in response to a variety of leads uncovered from the earlier John Doe investigation.

Polarization: Walker uses the book to position himself as presidential material. He contrasts himself with 2012 GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, suggesting that he’d be a stronger candidate due to his success at selling GOP policies. He fails to mention that Wisconsin became the most polarized state in the nation under his leadership, generating the largest and most intense protests the state has seen since the Vietnam War. Walker’s habit of ramming legislation through the Assembly without debate or explanation continues to keep the state polarized and floundering.

Nonetheless, his book points the finger at other Republicans for last year’s election losses, saying they did a “lousy job of presenting a positive vision of free market solutions to our nation’s problems in a way that is relevant to people’s lives.”

Walker’s book does not, however, avoid the infamously embarrassing episode in which he took a phone call from a DJ pretending to be billionaire David Koch, who’s helped to funnel millions of dollars into the governor’s campaign coffers in exchange for enacting Koch’s legislative and policy wish list. During the conversation, Walker told the man pretending to be Koch that he’d considered — but ultimately ruled out — planting agitators among the demonstrators swarming the Capitol to protest the governor’s demolition of public unions.

In the book, Walker and Mark Thiessen, who’s credited as the book’s “co-author,” claim that the governor had never actually considered the plant but “did not want to insult Mr. Koch by saying that we would never do something so stupid.”

Walker also claims that the episode was one of several he describes as divine inspiration — instances in which God interfered in his life  to teach him a lesson.

“Only later did I realize that God had a plan for me with that episode,” Walker writes.

After holding a brief news conference during which Walker took only four questions from reporters about the prank, he picked up his daily devotional and saw that the title for the Feb. 23 reading was, “The power of humility, the burden of pride.”

Walker writes: “I looked up and said, ‘I hear you, Lord.’ God was sending me a clear message to not do things for personal glory or fame. It was a turning point that helped me in future challenges, helped me stay focused on the people I was elected to serve, and reminded me of God’s abundant grace and the paramount need to stay humble.”


In addition to taking down Romney, Walker’s book also attempts to paint him as presidential material by condemning Washington politics and Barack Obama’s presidency, saying Obama has laid out a second term agenda that “doubles down on the failures of his first.” He says Wisconsin’s Republican-led policies have shown a better way forward for the country.

“If we can do it in Wisconsin, we can do it anywhere — even in our nation’s capital,” Walker writes.

Democrats who fought Walker’s agenda in the Legislature and who helped organize the recall attempt laughed at his ludicrous omissions and self-aggrandizing claims, dismissing his book as fictional fodder to fuel his delusions of becoming president.

“I’ve never met anyone who wants to be president more,” said U.S. Rep. Mark Pocan, a Democrat from Madison who served in the state Assembly during the union fight. “We knew the book was coming. We know he’s traveling all over the country. It would be nice if he put even a portion of that energy into creating jobs in Wisconsin.”

Critics have even scoffed at the notion Walker could write a book. He had a 2.59 GPA when he left Marquette University under mysterious circumstances without receiving a degree. Before dropping out, Walker was disciplined over alleged campaign fraud during a run for student body president.

Although no reporter has been able to ascertain what’s on his college record, many of his critics speculate that either he was kicked out of Marquette or accrued something on his record that was bad enough to prevent him from applying to another institution of higher learning. 

After leaving Marquette, Walker worked in fundraising for the American Red Cross from 1990 to 1994, ending in another sudden and unexplained departure.  Except for those four years, he’s never held a position in the private sector, which he claims to champion.

Wisconsin Democratic Party chairman Mike Tate said Walker’s book shows that he would only cause more divisiveness.

“He’s not the type of person who’s going to bring people together and sit people down around a table,” Tate said.

The release of Walker’s book comes roughly a year before he faces re-election in Wisconsin. One Democrat candidate, former Trek Bicycle Corp. executive and state Commerce Department Secretary Mary Burke, has announced she will challenge Walker. She’s already been backed by EMILY’s List, which put more than $5 million into U.S. Sen. Tammy Baldwin’s successful 2012 campaign.

Burke, who had not announced her candidacy before Walker wrote the book, is not mentioned in it.

While belittling Romney, Walker is much kinder to Romney’s running mate, U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin. He calls Ryan, who is a close friend, “one of the smartest and most decent people I know in or out of politics.”

Walker says Ryan has the courage to tackle big issues and is a bold reformer. He trashes Romney for distancing himself from many of Ryan’s fiscal proposals.

Perhaps signaling his willingness to be considered for a vice presidential slot, Walker also offers praise to other Republicans who are considered potential 2016 presidential candidates, including New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal.

Ryan plans to publish a book titled “Where Do We Go from Here?” next summer. But low recent polling numbers in his own congressional district could diminish Ryan’s presidential prospects and force him to spend time in Wisconsin. 

The Associated Press contributed to this story.